Lamentazioni di Eleazar ha-Qalir

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    CITAZIONE (Hard-Rain @ 12/1/2009, 13:20) 
    CITAZIONE
    Posso sapere dove hai letto che scrive della città di Nazareth? O forse dato il periodo tardo in cui visse ormai non ha più importanza?

    L'ho letto in alcuni autori che citano questo maestro ebreo per dire che in due lamentazioni (quali siano, purtroppo, non so) la classe sacerdotale degli Happizzess risiedeva appunto a Nazaret. Purtroppo non so se sia vero e dove si parli di questa cosa, infatti lo sto verificando e ti ringrazio moltissimo della tua attenzione.

    Il tutto era nato per sapere chi sono i primi autori al difuori del Nuovo Testamento a citare Nazaret. E' saltato fuori San Girolamo (IV-V secolo) e poi - IN TEORIA - Eleazar Ha-Qualir.

    Shalom.

    Ecco, c'è anche questo libro che ne parla:

    http://books.google.it/books?id=Zn-kyk2YHY...num=2&ct=result

    ATTENZIONE: Google Libri permette di visualizzare solo una porzione del libro, per ragioni di copyright. Per accedere a tutto il capitolo che qui ci interessa suggerisco di andare in Google e digitare la stringa di ricerca "9 Ab lamentazioni Eleazar", uno dei primi link che il motore di ricerca segnala è proprio il capitolo intero, con tutte le pagine leggibili.

    Avraham, se hai tempo, che cosa ne pensi di quello che è scritto in questo libro da pag. 52 a pag. 56? Sono affidabili queste informazioni? Mi ha interessato in particolare il punto dove l'autrice dice che Nazaret era chiamata nel Talmud in altro modo? E' vero o sono fantasie?

    Shalom.

    Cito questo post di Hard Rain in quanto in esso inseriva il link del libro di M. Luisa Rigato Il titolo della Croce di Gesù: confronto tra i Vangeli e la Tavoletta-reliquia della Basilica Eleniana a Roma Gregorian Biblical BookShop, 2003
    http://books.google.it/books?id=Zn-kyk2YHY...num=2&ct=result

    A pag 52 dello stesso la Rigato scrive in NOTA 1 l'autrice cita Samuel Klein che nel suo libro Beitrage del 1909 a pag 8 riporta il riferimento dell'articolo che il geniale Rabbino Rapoport aveva dedicato a Eleazar Kalir e alla sua Lamentazione. L'articolo era stato pubblicato nella rivista ebraica Kerem Hemed 6 del 1841 (pag 119 ?)
    La Rigato confessa di "non aver purtroppo trovato nulla di Rapoport nelle nostre biblioteche"

    L'articolo citato dalla Rigato dovrebbe essere oggi disponibile on line qui:

    http://archive.org/stream/kerememed06berlu...e/n264/mode/2up

    Ovviamente solo per quelli che leggono l'ebraico.... :angry:
     
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    Studioso israeliano estremamente interessante per l'argomento:

    Dr. Ophir Münz-Manor
    Department of History, Philosophy and Judaic Studies

    2007 Ph.D., The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
    Dissertation: "Studies in Figurative Language of Pre-Classical Piyyut"
    2002 M.A.(magna cum laude), The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
    (Hebrew literature).
    Thesis:"Elazar Birabi Qilir: Liturgical Poems for Hanukkah: A Critical Edition Based on Manuscripts from the Cairo Genizah"
    2000 B.A. (magna cum laude), Hebrew Literature and Interdisciplinary Studies, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

    Research Fields

    Jewish and Christian Liturgical Poetry
    Paleography of Medieval Jewish Manuscripts
    Ritual and Performance in Late Antique Judaism and Christianity
    Gender and Sexuality in Rabbinic Culture

    Edited Books

    Ancient Piyyut - An Annotated Literary Anthology, Tel Aviv: Tel Aviv University Press (forthcoming, 2013).

    Rilevante anche un volume in preparazione (uscita annunciata 2013)

    The Liturgical Poetry of Elazar Birabi Qilir for Hanukkah - A Critical Edition Based on Manuscripts from the Cairo Genizah (with Michael Rand, Hebrew, under review).

    che dovrebbe essere l'edizione rivista della Tesi del 2000 citata sopra.
     
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    Un interessantissimo esempio di analisi storico testuale prodotta dal prof Münz-Manor su un piyyut di Elazar Birabi Qilir

    http://thetalmudblog.wordpress.com/2011/12...-piyyut-part-i/

    Hanukkah and Piyyut (Part 1)

    Hanukkah begins today and since I have been working for some years now on Hebrew liturgical poems for this feast, I thought it would be nice to share with the readers of the Talmud Blog some interesting bits and pieces of these verse compositions. Here is the first installment.

    Late antique piyyutim for Passover elaborate on the Exodus, those for Shavuoth on the giving of the Torah at Sinai, those for Purim on the story of Esther and Mordecai, and those for Hanukkah… on the inauguration of the Tabernacle! Neither the Maccabees, nor the Seleucians are mentioned; rather, one finds lengthy descriptions of the desert dwelling and the sacrifices that were brought on the occasion of its inauguration.

    Why is this so? Simply put, the piyyutim follow the liturgy, and since the reading of the Torah during Hanukkah focuses on the inauguration of the Tabernacle as narrated in the book of Numbers, the poets followed that lead. It is no coincidence, of course, that this biblical episode is read at the synagogue. In the absence of a canonical book that relates the Hasmonean revolt, the rabbis and the payytanim chose the closest biblical episode to the historical event that they could find. Indeed, once the so-called Scroll of Antiochus (מגילת אנטיוכוס) was introduced to Jewish culture in the early Gaonic period, the piyyutim were filled with “historical” description of the battles of the Hasmonean agains Antiochus Epiphanies.

    But at least in once case we find a payytan from late antique Palestine who sought to (re)collect some “historical” data concerning the Maccabees, and this payytan is no other than the by-now Talmud Blog favorite, Elazar Birabi Qilir. Here is one interesting and somewhat amusing example of what the Qiliri came up with. In one place he writes:

    קינאו חמישה / להקים דת חמישה / כממים נימשה // רצו עד מודעית / יוונים שם להבעית / על נקמת שביעית

    The five [sons of Matityahu] were zealous / and sustained the law of the five [books] / like the one whom from the water was drawn [=Moses] // They ran all the way to Modi’in / in order to terrify the Greeks / and to take revenge of the seventh [land (= Israel)]

    But why does the Qiliri indicate that the Maccabees had to run all the way to Modi’in, the place in which one of the major battles against the Seleucians took place? This mystery is solved in the next couplet:

    ארבעת ראשי נמר / ריצצו פרחי אימר / בגזירת שומר // לבשר בחוצות יבנית / כי קיצצה חנית / כל לשון יוונית

    The flowers of Immer / smashed the four headed tiger [=the Greeks] / by the decree of the Guard [=God] // To announce in the streets of Yavnit / that the spear chopped / every Greek tongue

    According to the Qilir, the Maccabees were part of the priestly division called Immer that dwelled in a village called Yavnit (יבנית). Already in the Bible the Israelite priests were said to be divided into twenty four divisions, Immer being one of them. Interestingly, according to Josephus (and other historical sources) the Maccabees belonged, in fact, to the Yehoyariv order that was located in Judaea. But as was mentioned above the order of Immer dwelled in the Galilee. So now we can begin to appreciate the finesse of the Qiliri: the name of the village is pronounced almost the same as the Hebrew adjective for Greek (יוונית), and the Qiliri brilliantly plays on this similarity in the last verse quoted above. But this complicates things for the Qiliri, geographically-wise. If the Maccabees dwelled in the Galilee surely they had to rush all the way to Modi’in, which is located in Judaea, and of course soon thereafter to rush back north in order to bring back the happy news to their Galilean hometown.

    Much more can be said about these verses (and those of you who read modern Hebrew can read this Ha’aretz article on this piyyut by Joseph Yahalom) but let me conclude with the following quote from Aristotle’s Poetics, part four:

    It is, moreover, evident from what has been said, that it is not the function of the poet to relate what has happened, but what may happen, what is possible according to the law of probability or necessity. The poet and the historian differ not by writing in verse or in prose. The work of Herodotus might be put into verse, and it would still be a species of history, with meter no less than without it. The true difference is that one relates what has happened, the other what may happen. Poetry, therefore, is a more philosophical and a higher thing than history: for poetry tends to express the universal, history the particular.

    So who do you prefer – Josephus or Elazar Birabi Qilir?
     
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    CITAZIONE (jehoudda @ 18/5/2013, 23:57) 
    Un interessantissimo esempio di analisi storico testuale prodotta dal prof Münz-Manor su un piyyut di Elazar Birabi Qilir

    http://thetalmudblog.wordpress.com/2011/12...-piyyut-part-i/

    Hanukkah and Piyyut (Part 1)

    Hanukkah begins today and since I have been working for some years now on Hebrew liturgical poems for this feast, I thought it would be nice to share with the readers of the Talmud Blog some interesting bits and pieces of these verse compositions. Here is the first installment.

    Late antique piyyutim for Passover elaborate on the Exodus, those for Shavuoth on the giving of the Torah at Sinai, those for Purim on the story of Esther and Mordecai, and those for Hanukkah… on the inauguration of the Tabernacle! Neither the Maccabees, nor the Seleucians are mentioned; rather, one finds lengthy descriptions of the desert dwelling and the sacrifices that were brought on the occasion of its inauguration.

    Why is this so? Simply put, the piyyutim follow the liturgy, and since the reading of the Torah during Hanukkah focuses on the inauguration of the Tabernacle as narrated in the book of Numbers, the poets followed that lead. It is no coincidence, of course, that this biblical episode is read at the synagogue. In the absence of a canonical book that relates the Hasmonean revolt, the rabbis and the payytanim chose the closest biblical episode to the historical event that they could find. Indeed, once the so-called Scroll of Antiochus (מגילת אנטיוכוס) was introduced to Jewish culture in the early Gaonic period, the piyyutim were filled with “historical” description of the battles of the Hasmonean agains Antiochus Epiphanies.

    But at least in once case we find a payytan from late antique Palestine who sought to (re)collect some “historical” data concerning the Maccabees, and this payytan is no other than the by-now Talmud Blog favorite, Elazar Birabi Qilir. Here is one interesting and somewhat amusing example of what the Qiliri came up with. In one place he writes:

    קינאו חמישה / להקים דת חמישה / כממים נימשה // רצו עד מודעית / יוונים שם להבעית / על נקמת שביעית

    The five [sons of Matityahu] were zealous / and sustained the law of the five [books] / like the one whom from the water was drawn [=Moses] // They ran all the way to Modi’in / in order to terrify the Greeks / and to take revenge of the seventh [land (= Israel)]

    But why does the Qiliri indicate that the Maccabees had to run all the way to Modi’in, the place in which one of the major battles against the Seleucians took place? This mystery is solved in the next couplet:

    ארבעת ראשי נמר / ריצצו פרחי אימר / בגזירת שומר // לבשר בחוצות יבנית / כי קיצצה חנית / כל לשון יוונית

    The flowers of Immer / smashed the four headed tiger [=the Greeks] / by the decree of the Guard [=God] // To announce in the streets of Yavnit / that the spear chopped / every Greek tongue

    According to the Qilir, the Maccabees were part of the priestly division called Immer that dwelled in a village called Yavnit (יבנית). Already in the Bible the Israelite priests were said to be divided into twenty four divisions, Immer being one of them. Interestingly, according to Josephus (and other historical sources) the Maccabees belonged, in fact, to the Yehoyariv order that was located in Judaea. But as was mentioned above the order of Immer dwelled in the Galilee. So now we can begin to appreciate the finesse of the Qiliri: the name of the village is pronounced almost the same as the Hebrew adjective for Greek (יוונית), and the Qiliri brilliantly plays on this similarity in the last verse quoted above. But this complicates things for the Qiliri, geographically-wise. If the Maccabees dwelled in the Galilee surely they had to rush all the way to Modi’in, which is located in Judaea, and of course soon thereafter to rush back north in order to bring back the happy news to their Galilean hometown.

    Much more can be said about these verses (and those of you who read modern Hebrew can read this Ha’aretz article on this piyyut by Joseph Yahalom) but let me conclude with the following quote from Aristotle’s Poetics, part four:

    It is, moreover, evident from what has been said, that it is not the function of the poet to relate what has happened, but what may happen, what is possible according to the law of probability or necessity. The poet and the historian differ not by writing in verse or in prose. The work of Herodotus might be put into verse, and it would still be a species of history, with meter no less than without it. The true difference is that one relates what has happened, the other what may happen. Poetry, therefore, is a more philosophical and a higher thing than history: for poetry tends to express the universal, history the particular.

    So who do you prefer – Josephus or Elazar Birabi Qilir?

    Io da buon italiano preferisco la lingua italiana !

    Grazie!
     
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    CITAZIONE
    Io da buon italiano preferisco la lingua italiana !

    Grazie!

    Perdonami ma questa proprio non l'ho capita.
    Sono d'accordo che sarebbe auspicabile poter aver a disposizione tutto anche nella propria lingua, ma purtroppo il materiale interessante che tratta le innumerevoli questioni di cui siamo appassionati è per il 90% in altre lingue (inglese in testa)
    A questo punto cosa dovevo fare? Non postare questo brano originale pur ritenendolo molto interessante?
    Oppure farlo solo a condizione di tradurlo? Lo avrei fatto volentieri se ne avessi avuto il tempo (a volte l'ho fatto, ma non si può fare sempre)
    Ho postato anche materiale in ebraico (unica versione esistente) esprimendo il mio personale rammarico per non poterne "approfittare".
    Non sono peraltro l'unico ad inserire testi in altre lingue e francamente credo sia assolutamente giusto e stimolante.
    Se si tratta di un tuo specifico interesse per questo brano fammelo sapere e tenterò di tradurtelo.
    Come avrai visto, su questa questione Kalir quasi tutta la letteratura di spessore è ebraica.
    Da italiano nè buono nè cattivo amo molto anche le altre lingue (con una personale preferenza per il francese)
    ciao
     
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64 replies since 11/1/2009, 10:48   2606 views
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